WHNetwork Blog

Very good article. I think the postings on YELP are basically from big mouth chat nerds who have the time and energy to yap about all these things. A lot of them think they are pseudo legitimate reviewers who drip of cynicism and self importance. I fully agree with this B & B who have filed suit. It is defamation and unnecessary. Some people use it as a threat and these sites give them a forum.

Martin Levine

Hello!

I opened a pizzeria in Seattle 3 months ago and already have a love/hate relationship with Yelp. I know that it's hard to please everyone but I don't really trust all of the Yelp users that write reviews. After our first month or so I was contacted by someone who worked for the advertising team with Yelp. They asked me if I wanted to run an ad because we were getting good "hits". Well, after speaking with the sales rep he admitted that some of your competitors can create profiles to bash your establishment in order to keep potential customers away. I was a little shocked to hear this coming from the sales rep but at least he was being honest.

So far our reviews are all over the place. People will rave about the things they like and others will give us bad comments on the same items. In my opinion, Yelp is not always the best measuring stick. How can you prepare the same items so right and then turn around and do them so wrong? The same pizza chef has worked every shift since opening...lunch and dinner. We haven't even switched up ingredients, formulas, etc...

I held back on the Yelp advertising but still fear that having a profile with negative reviews will effect my brand new business venture! I'm confident that my product will prevail but I have a suggestion for Yelp... Only post reviews that Yelp users write after 25 or more reviews. That will keep the "fake" users or 1 timers from posting. Yelp has a filter but I don't think it's the best system.

That's all I've got for Yelp feedback. Thanks for the great topics every few weeks. If you are ever in the Seattle area, come in for a slice! http://www.eatatfattys.com

- George

Hi Margie, I'm a restaurant manager in Washington DC. I deal with customers all the time who present unreasonable and exaggerated complaints in attempt to get items comped from their checks. Yelp is a forum that allows upset customers to post over blown negative complaints about their experiences. I think it's very sad that business owners would pay to have these negative reviews removed from Yelp's website. In today's economy it's difficult enough running a restaurant with the high overhead that restaurants have. Those guests who caused the problem at the B and B should be ashamed of themselves.

-Alex De Alcala

Hi Margie,

First a belated personal congrats on your marriage, wish you & yours and the best.

Any way ya "Yelp" ........ they can deny it all they want but "THEY" Blackmail Businesses! My friends up at (name deleted) Winery ran into a situation where they supposedly had "TOO" many good compliments verse one negative and most positives were removed. I'll vouch for that because my positive post about their Cab was off in the haze of the heat somewhere (gone/deleted)? Speaking to (name deleted) up there she said something like they'd re-post all those positives for a price but they still had their doubts.

So are they legit ?

When posts/opinions disappear - NO

When posts/opinions have a "Cost or Price" - NO

When "Negative" posts/opinions can disappear for a "Price"- NO

As for the Party, well if the guests got out of hand to point Cops were called no matter by whom, "They are at Fault!". It's not like they were in the middle of "Nowhere" and no one around but themselves and critters.

Per your question "How do you feel about businesses that pay and get their negative posts filtered? "....How would I know now if they had any?

Cheers to your good Health
Robert Taitano
Taiphoon Online Ventures

This email is in response to a Yelp experience of my own. Not nearly as overwhelming as the B&B experience that you described but horrible nonetheless.

I used to work for a small family owned winery (to remain nameless) in their tasting room. On the weekends we allowed guests to enjoy a tasting outside on our patio overlooking the nice view of Napa Valley. We would go through our tasting flight with them in a more relaxed environment versus standing at a tasting bar. The specific person who wrote the negative Yelp (specifically about my service) instantly stuck out in my mind as someone I had dealt with on that given day who was noticeably "over-tasted" (a nice way of saying too much wine). Both her and her friend repeated questions multiple times, nagged me insistently about swimming in our pool and were outright annoying. She mentioned on yelp that I was rude, hurried them through their tasting (when in fact a normal 1/2 hour tasting lasted well over 2 hours for them), was unknowledgeable about wine as well as "yelping" that I said they would have to hook-up with the owner in order to swim. Reality: the owner is the only person that can give someone permission to use the pool and i said you would basically have to be his g/f to do that and didn't see that happening, funny about the wine knowledge because i am currently studying for the Master Sommelier Level 2 exam already passing level one a year ago (and next to another man in the Tasting room, know more about our wines than anyone else, besides the winemaker himself).

Luckily I had already put in my 2 week notice to quit before this Yelp came out but it still upset me that the truth could be skewed so greatly and was so easily published as fact. Yelp offers insider reviews and perspectives on places but takes no consideration into who the person yelping is, their mentality or even sobriety during their visit. The fact that someone can perceive a negative experience, write about it (because that's what they remember) and publish it, even when their perspective was clouded by massive amounts of alcohol, is unheard of.

Even if other employees could verify my actions as being contrary to those described in Yelp, it doesn't matter. That's what someone is going to read and base an initial judgment on, sad but true.

Yelp would better serve it's audience if it actually knew who was writing reviews. Examiner.com interviews and actually has knowledgeable insiders reviewing and writing for them.

Anyways, my impression, YELP sucks for what it is now, it could change and benefit both the hospitality industry and consumers, but not yet.

This email is for your information only and may not be published elsewhere or used in any other way.

Thank for listening (reading).

Brett Johnson

“Yelp” I is the new word for legalized BLACK MAIL. Just check your basic value system and paying a company to not post negative postings is black mail. Granted no one likes a negative review but telling some one that you have a negative review and if you pay me $300 I will not post it is not right. If they are going to run a review site all reviews should be posted good, bad or indifferent.

Robert Marshall
Inn Marin – General Manager

Ahh, I was wise not to get into posting a lot of my events on YELP -- I had a feeling that something like this would happen. I cannot believe how unscrupulous some people can be. Someone should yelp about yelp! I wouder how they will face getting such a bad review!

Carol Dearth
425.644.4285
www.TheSizzleWorks.com

This practice sucks!

Jack Joyce

Thank you for sharing this situation. I've been in the hospitality industry for longer than I care to say, so I've seen much with regard to customer relationships between customers and businesses. Websites like Yelp have proved invaluable when everything is wonderful. Conversely, when things go bad, it can magnify and multiply to potential customers in such a magnitude that it's truly scary.

It's a new world out there, and if businesses want it only one way, without understanding the downside and having policies and procedures to address the worse case scenarios, then it's the "seller beware". Moreover, I think small businesses also have a long way to go still in really educating themselves and using the internet to their benefit.

That said, websites also have responsibilities to behave in a ethical and legal way. Sadly, lawsuits don't really accomplish much when it comes down to the individual small business and consumer (in the grand scheme of things). Only lawyers win. I believe this applies to class-action lawsuits in paricular.

John Durham

Margie -

We are so confident in our ability to provide great wines and a positive experience, we integrated Yelp into our homepage!

http://goosecross.com

From time to time we get nailed. Not a good feeling and our stomach's sink but it's what they felt and something we accept. If the reviewer said things that we're inaccurate or out of line and not in keeping with Yelp review standards, we've been able to get them removed.

Lastly, Colleen Topper replies to every Yelp reviewer within 24 hours of receiving their review in a very positive way. Sometimes, the reviewer will not respond, others are very appreciative of the personal touch, others (sometimes) even increase their star rating.

In other words, Yelp is a social interactive site so, to participate, we need to be socially interactive and provide the "experience" folks are looking for.

Our overall experience of working with Yelp has been positive.

Best regards,

David Topper

Hi Margie,

I think that paying yelp is blackmail – plain and simple. “Pay or I post negative comments; Pay and you’re golden.” I think this is outrageous.

Regards,

Lezette Yearby
National Sales Manager
B.R. Cohn Olive Oil Company

That smells like bribery, pay me off and I’ll take the bad review out. I say it is only fair that both good and bad reviews be disclosed. I can’t say I would ever trust a rating on Yelp now that I know the business can buy their way out of a bad review. Very weird

Thank you,

Bonnie Sears
Snows Lake Vineyard
Administrative Manager

My husband and I had a lousy, lousy experience with a restaurant in San Francisco and posted on Yelp the next morning. (I mean, really poor service like forgetting an entree. The service was so slow we didn't bother trying to correct it.)

We'd provided enough information regarding our meal that the owner figured out which party we were and called us. He was really nasty and aggressive and argued with us about our review.

I went back and checked the review, by the way. The owner hasn't availed himself of the add owner comment option.

Based on this, I don't trust reviews on Yelp anyway. I can't believe that we were the first- or the last- negative reviewer he's pursued.

The restaurant? (Name withheld), fairly soon after it opened (2008).

I'm not willing to have this posted or otherwise circulated with my name or email on it, by the way. I have no interest in being harassed by that very unpleasant man again. Just thought that this was an interesting twist on biases in Yelp reviews, and I'm wondering if it's common.

Sincerely,
(Name withheld)

I really like this topic and this question. I am a wine tweeter, and a artisanal cocktail bloger and tweeter based in the Napa Valley. I know a lot about these subjects; I have spent my life traveling, studying, researching and familiarizing myself with all the ins and outs of styles, cultures and uses of these beverages all over the world. I feel my opinion matters as I've put in the leg work. When I write my reviews, however, I am very careful to look at the big picture and the context of every aspect of my review. I take it very seriously when I post a less than positive review, as I know that there is a potential for 10s of 1000s of views from my followers, and frankly I won't post anything - sometimes I won't even write anything - if I've had a negative experience for at least 24 hours. Just enough time to cool off. This is rare but I follow my rule strictly. I mentioned above that I believe my opinion matters; this is because I've sent a lifetime acquiring a vast knowledge on "my" topics, that I know them intimately and can put them into perspective. Therefore, I am offended by green knee-jerk peasants who bash establishments on Yelp! that they have no special knowledge or intellectual authority on the subject. Most 20 and 30 somethings will not go to an establishment that has less than 3.5-4 stars. If a nice B&B has rules about hot tub use (they most likely had the rule prior to your booking) and you book rooms there, you should take the responsibility to find out before if drunken hot tub parties are tolerated at midnight - don't bash the establishment for your lack of foresight. On the other hand maybe it keeps some places honest. I'd pay to filter out ridiculous negative reviews that are obviously emotional and personal based on malice.

Getting off my high horse...

Cheers!

Margie - I owe you a glass of wine. Anytime you are in Pismo. for us Yelp is irrelevant when it comes to real business. We track who buys and who doesn't and although Yelp does get us traffic, the real buyers are not Yelpers.

We do appreciate a real review but unfair reviews abound and it is impossible to get rid of them. I do know several businesses around us with grandiose reviews from close friends that make it through and seemingly objective reviews that get filtered. Yelp is not perfect and there is an unfairness about an anonymous review - good or bad. Of course we love the good ones. Fortunately for us good reviews outnumber unfair (bad ones of course!) ones.

Ash Mehta

Your article on Yelp was a good one...its getting to be all about recommendations (good or bad)...as for the poor owner of the B&B, getting not positive reviews from this group may be a good thing if it helps to keep that crowd's friends away...does the owner want more of the same? If the owner has a website (and they should), they might want to consider making changes to emphasis the local ordinances (the time restriction on using the hot tub) and that although they want for their guests to enjoy themselves excessive "activities" that result in damages to the B&B must be paid for by the guests.

Times are tough and business owners may sometimes commit to things that they ordinarily would not but they should have expected trouble with a group that large. I know that landlords almost never rent to college students unless the apartment is already a wreck.

I would guess that you already know that I love wine...yet its been a very long time since I have been drunk (probably over 25 years) so I have no respect for people who think its "fun" to do that to their bodies. The times, they are a changin' and we all need to change with them.

Hope the B&B owner had insurance and learned some valuable lessons.

Mark Norman

Dear Margie,

Thanks for the Wine and Hospitality e-zine story "The Industry's Love / Hate Relationship with Yelp"

Besides being a wine blogger, I am an established online community management expert, social media, and customer relationship management consultant. I've been struggling alongside of everyone else for years to find and pursue the best way forward in a world that's increasingly driven by the reputations of peers. If you feel that you (or someone whom you know) has been damaged by Yelp!, I'd love to hear about and help out. We can discuss some simple practical steps for dealing with both Yelp! as well as with customer relations. Let's meetup at Cheers, Soco, NapaFB, MerlotMonday, or you name it. We should run it up the flag pole a bit tonight in the meeting at Deerfield.

Over the past couple of years, I've interviewed Jeremy Stoppelman (CEO of Yelp!) and his community management management team about the pervasive assertions of bribery for reputation repair. I've also been involved with a number of businesses who have discussed with Yelp! how they might repair damaged reputations. The advice that most of them reported receiving from Yelp! staff was that they "should work on their relationships with their actual and prospective customers", and were not extorted for good reviews.

Here is a video blog report which I authored on this subject in April of 2009. Mission-Oriented Online Community Conflict Resolution http://richreader.blogspot.com/2009/04/mission-oriented-online-community.html The principle interviewee is Nish Nadaraja, who was the director of community relations at Yelp! at that time. Nish left a while back, but still advocates the same views that he expressed here.

I also stay in touch with Yelp! Marketing Director, Michelle Broderick, on a wide range of issues. The door is open, and the dialog needs to be encouraged.

As I know that most of my readers don't have the time, the short view is that Yelp! doesn't hold up their customers, and doesn't do it for the same reasons that you don't hold up yours. There's so much more that we can do constructively.

kind regards,

Rich Reader

Hi Margie,

I received your newsletter and I definitely agree that Yelp charges an exuberant amount to merchants for advertising on their website, and making sure they filter their bad reviews. My business partners and I believe that Yelp is similar to the "mafia" as they charge merchants for "protection" from bad reviews. As a result, we have come up with a
technological solution to promote businesses by only charging them a reasonable amount. The technology is part of our new company TappLocal, which we launched this week, and it appeared on TechCrunch.com yesterday
(http://techcrunch.com/2010/08/24/tapplocal/).

We have a system that is essentially a customer referral network, we charge merchants for actually bringing business into their store. Using smartphones built-in GPS technologies, we are able to directly serve extremely local offers (as close as across the street), right inside an iPhone/Android app.

We also offer a flash-deal platform that allows merchants to quickly move perishable goods, or bring customers in the door during slow hours through a time-sensitive offer delivered to an entire regional network. Furthermore, the platform allows customers to interact like never before with a brand in real-time. We pioneered an interactive coupon, the customer can share details on Facebook about the offer, invite a friend via SMS, follow the merchant to receive more offers, or even lookup more nearby offers. TappLocal wins when the merchants win! TappLocal charges a flat fee for customer acquisition, on top of a small monthly service fee. The goal of this is to help reduce the common waste in advertising spending.

Wineries in Sonoma and Napa county can benefit from our services because they can reach out to customers that are near their locations.

Also, we are partnering with many of the popular wine app developers, which attract wine enthusiasts who after viewing a winery's coupon via our network, will most likely visit the winery.

We think all-in-all this is a very compelling offer for merchants, and especially wineries due to the special emphasis we are putting on the wine industry.

Cheers!

Laura Castaneda

Hi Margie,

I saw your recent post and wanted to correct one statement you appear to make: businesses can *not* "pay and get their negative posts filtered" on Yelp. As a result, the question you ask ("Would you pay?") is a moot and misleading one. The business owners in question are mistaken if they believe that purchasing an advertising package on Yelp would "fix" their concern over negative reviews; all their advertising would do is drive more traffic to their business listing page on Yelp and all their reviews -- positive and negative.

If the business owners in question have claimed the free tools available to them on Yelp, they have the ability to respond publicly on their business listing page to the reviews you highlight and explain their version of events.

More information to dispel the myth you mention can be found on our company blog, notably here and here, and more information about how business owners can unlock their free tools on Yelp and engage with their customers can be found in our Business Owner's Guide.

Please don't hesitate to contact our media relations department if you have any further questions.

Regards,

Vince Sollitto
VP, Communications & Public Affairs
Yelp, Inc.

No, I wouldn’t pay to have a negative comment expunged. It sounds like extortion to me. Yelp ought to be able to provide two sides to the story. However, our reviews with Yelp have been great, I still feel personally it’s a good forum, but should be a ‘vs.’ situation.

Rebekah Bridges Tervydis | Social Catering Manager
Walnut Creek Marriott | 2355 N. Main Street | Walnut Creek, CA 94596

Hi Margie,

I just opened a small creperie that is a walk up window in a corner next to a Peet's Coffee. I have had great yelp reviews and the community is supportive and welcoming with the exception of one review. I was disappointed that the customer didn't give me an opportunity to please them or make it right. The complaint was that the contents of the crepe were cold and the crepe itself was rubbery. This is definitely not what I want to serve and would have made them a new one or a different one or whatever would have made then happy. The other complaint was that I don't sell drinks but trust me there are several other businesses right next to me that do. My space is only 50 square feet so I have to use all of it for crepes. I guess I need to toughen up and know that I can't please everyone.

Thanks for your article, it was perfect timing.

Faith

Hi Margie,

Thanks for the perspective on Yelp. I have heard so much talk about the good and bad of the site. I have to say, as a winery owner I LOVE Yelp. Honig has had many reviews posted on the site. Most of them have been good reviews, and they are genuine. We recognize the people who are writing the reviews as having been here. Some of course are not as positive and I think we have had a couple that were just not good at all.

First let me say that the reviews being posted on Yelp are almost always written by young professionals in their late twenties and their thirties. This seems to be the demographic that is most interested in sharing their opinion, and who look to their peers for recommendations. We have a lot of visitors to the winery in this age group. They have definite ideas about the way a business should operate, and we have been lucky to fit well with these ideas.

To me, Yelp reviews are priceless. An unbiased, unsolicited review of our business is an invaluable management tool. They give me insight into the operation of my tasting room that I would not otherwise have, since I do not work in the tasting room and am not at the winery on the weekends when we are busiest. Negative comments, or statements about “generous pours”, or “even though they are by appointment, they let us in anyway” are red flags that I can then address immediately with my staff. I also use the positive Yelp reviews as a way to commend my staff for their great customer service skills.

I personally respond to all reviews, whether they are positive or negative, and have always had communication back from the poster. They are always happy to hear back from the business and to have their issue acknowledged.

I realize that a site like Yelp can open the door to shady behavior, and that not all reviews are legitimate. I’m sure there are times when a person posts a review that is biased in some way, or just plain unfair. But Yelp wouldn’t be worth anything if everyone just posted great reviews. I think, instead of complaining about bad reviews, take a moment to read what the person has said and honestly look at your business to see if it is something you need to address. Use it as an opportunity to make a change for the better.

And hopefully, the success of your business is not entirely dependent on Yelp reviews. If you have satisfied customers they will recommend you to their friends and keep coming back.

Regina Weinstein
Director of Marketing and Retail
Honig Vineyard & Winery
http://www.honigwine.com

I thought the $300 merchant fee was the cost of the business' responses on the site. If a business purchases the ability to respond to your whining then they do. It usually makes the business look worst. I use Yelp with discretion and don't believe everything I see but I appreciate the forum and personally enjoy listing positive comments as well. As a hospitality professional I believe that our guests were already feeling this way they have an ability to be vocal without having to speak to a GSA offering free breakfast etc... I hope this makes the industry look at service standards and not blame the consumer...

Until recently, our experience hadn't been bad. We have received generally favorable reviews and we fully understand that each person's experience is unique and not every review is going to be glowing.

However, we recently had an experience that we feel was very unfair. A party of four came into our tasting room. Three of the younger members of the party were asked for ID's for proof of age. Two of those three produced them and the third said she had left hers in the car. She was informed that in the absence of ID, she could not drink. The three other members of the party were served and, when they thought no one was looking, passed a glass to the individual who didn't have an ID. What they did was illegal and, if we had failed to stop them, we too would have been acting illegally and subjecting ourselves to potential fines. They were informed that their tasting was over.

One member of the party then posted a one-star review on Yelp in which she admitted all the above and said that her experience had been ruined by being cut short. I contacted Yelp about this and got back what appeared to be a form letter via email about a week later in which it was stated that "Because we don't have firsthand knowledge of a reviewer's personal experience, we cannot verify your claims versus those of the reviewer." But that, of course, was the point! We both agreed on the facts. But what they did was against the law, and we were then being penalized because we had adhered to the law. Where's the justice in that?

Yelp also stated that the review was within their guidelines. Sure enough, when I looked at their guidelines, it did not specifically state that the reviewer could not perform illegal acts in a place of business they were reviewing and then trash them when they were stopped. Kind of opens it wide up, doesn't it?

Erik Thorson
Toad Hollow Vineyards

Pay to have your posting fixed? Sounds like bribery to me.

Dave Johnson
Consumer Direct/Visitor Center Manager
The Hess Collection Winery

I like reading other travelers/diners reviews and have posted many myself on sites like Trip Advisor and Travelocity, but not Yelp. The first two screen the posts, as they should, to prevent just the situation you were giving as an example. (as you've made the reservation and paid on their site, they know you are the one at least paying for the service). In my opinion the guests cited in the article were in the wrong by NOT following the posted rules and in a case like that the management has every right to respond in kind, with the deleted information.

Case in point, I booked a hotel room for a business trip even though there were some negative reviews posted about the hotel in the past. However, there were also glowing positive reviews with a more recent post date. When I arrived and during my stay my expectations were exceeded. It was a great place and I had to wonder if the negative post was put up without cause. Either that, or the management corrected the situation. (it had to do with security).
I wrote a glowing review after my stay, as I had no complaints, and couldn't understand why the negative review was posted.

I think these reviews should be monitored, but consumers have to use their common sense when reading them and evaluating the entries. Who knows who writes these things, disgruntled employees, mother-in-laws, etc. One can usually tell by the writing style if the person is mature and reasonable or writing for retribution.

I do not like the issue of making the establishment pay to remove negative reviews. It's strong-arming by the site and dishonest to consumers. If I know of any site that does this, I certainly would not go there for advice. It's probably why I don't go to Yelp.

Hope this helps.
Best,
JF

I love the idea of getting together and the point would be...because we can. The idea of having a party virtual is just another way of connecting. face to face is nice but there is only one me. I look forward to #CabernetDay. is that Sauvignon and Franc??

Tim McDonald

HI Margie,
Great topic. The enormity and repercussions of online reviews did not hit me until I read my first online review of . . . ME! No matter that it was mostly positive, I could no longer delude myself that I could just go to work and do my job well. After the initial shock, I have learned to accept online reviews as a fact of life and to interact with potential and current customers as if they are going to go home and blog about it. As a Wedding Coordinator with a large Catering Company that actually happens on a daily basis. It has forced me to reconsider vendor relationships, monitor staffing, enhance training and make an effort to just be nicer to everyone. The result is better customer service leading to good reviews which new customers remark on. It remains very, very scary. The concept that you can pay to post positive reviews and/ or censure your negative reviews undermines the integrity of everyone's hard work. Most people read the reviews with a discerning eye and can weed out inappropriate comments.

Thanks,

Marilyn Chapman, Delectables Catering

Margie:

Congratulations on getting married.
Hope all is well in your exciting new life!

I appreciate your work with Outside The Lines. Thanks for keeping us informed and stimulated.

In addition to the many benefits of social media, I am beginning to notice some buzz about possible downsides.
For example, how employers and individuals can get into trouble by tweeting too much, or the wrong things.

Some companies are even instituting policies for internet and social media use to avoid these problems.
Perhaps your readers would be interested in a piece on this subject
Below are some potential resources.

Best wishes,
Randall Danta

Global communicator soclal media policies:
http://www.globallanguages.com/en/news/GlobalCommunicator/archives/GC_93_201008/fi_1.php

Social Media Council Best Practices Toolkit:
http://www.socialmedia.org/disclosure/

Cisco internet postings policy:
http://blogs.cisco.com/news/comments/ciscos_internet_postings_policy

In addition to the lack of credibility in reviews, there is a lack of accuracy. There are far too many outdated listings. The hours are wrong, places are closed, links do not work, etc. It was a great tool when it was smaller and kept current. I prefer to use the smaller, localized review sites.

-Mariah

We've had positive reviews, so it's not a bad tool. The feedback is there for all to see - so sometimes painful. Some of our neighbors have been panned and you can never get that off the Yelp site.

Crystal

I don't trust it ..a handful of people use yelp to slam business entities.... that they personally have a vendetta against...so i don't trust it, don't use it and don't care if it stays around it started as a fabulous idea though and got out of hand with yelpers vying for fame and how many places they could yelp etc...competition got out of hand.

-Bren Norris

I'll be one of the few dissenters here and say that I'm a fan and big believer of Yelp. No, it's not perfect, but overall, I'd say that it works more often than not. I tend to believe that the majority of people are smart enough to figure out the pitfalls of the system and learn to read between the lines.

Yes, there are the occasional malicious bad reviews (as well as the overly glowing reviews planted by friends of business owners), but as I said... people can read between the lines. If a Yelper only has one review, and it's scathing -- you take it with a grain of salt. But if 150 Yelpers say that the roast chicken sucks, then guess what -- your roast chicken DOES suck.

It's been my personal experience (as a restaurant manager) that most of the people who hate Yelp are business owners that uncomfortable with the idea that they don't have much control over the review process and that they have to on their game all the time because anyone can add their review.

I tend to actually trust the local sites LESS because of the smaller sample of reviews/population and the likelihood that more parties with a vested interest are corrupting the process.

Arnel Salvatierra

I dislike the fact that even if you write an honest review, you have to post them at a certain rate, or else your review will be hidden. Then only folks who know about the hidden reviews and can find the tiny link will find them. They claim that they don't want one-off posters influencing their reviews.

Doug Hanthorn

After reading your blog, it appears the guests were not of B & B caliber. Perhaps they should have requested adjoining rooms at a cheap hotel. Maybe the owner made some poor choices to involve the police. To visit the wine country to get intoxicated is not only foolish but in incredibly poor taste. I hope others would read into the Yelp posting and recognize the guests were entirely out of line and chose to make their own rules. Sounds similar to the tirades of rock bands throughout the '70's . . . i.e. trashing hotel rooms.

To answer your question, I have had very little luck using Yelp. As stated by other posts, the reviews are outdated and lack credibility. Poorly managed blog site. Like Mariah, I prefer to use the local reviews.

Jeff Haskell

For me Yelp has exactly zero value. It's bush-league. Too many of the reviewers sound like 15-year-olds. The restaurant reviews in particular are very unsophisticated. Some of these reviewers sound like they've never eaten in a white-tablecloth restaurant before. I've seen reviews claiming for example to have been served "terrible oysters" at a restaurant, when in fact the reviewer has never had oysters before! From what I understand restaurants can pay Yelp to be able to delete reviews from the site, which makes it totally worthless. But my main objection is the lack of real reviewing skills of the "reviewers." It truly makes you appreciate the professional reviewers. To go to a restaurant once - have an unsatisfying experience, and blast the restaurant is silly. Even absolutely top-notch restaurants have a bad day.

Janet Texas

No I would not pay. I think it's important to have a forum for people to review places they do businesses with, but I think it's also important that the business who receives a bad review should be entitled to make a reasonable explanation - and allow people to have their own opinions based on both sides. I also think that if a business takes responsibility for bad service, product or other mistakes, the bad review should either be taken down or be modified to say there was a problem but it was satisfactorily resolved.

I suffer from two bad reviews and both hurt. I had surgery and hired help during my recuperation - she quit with no notice and I was left holding the bag. When you are drug and otherwise impaired, you don't realize how impaired you are and I had agreed to things I couldn't possibly have done in my condition and state. But my help was gone so short notice I had no choice but to go forward. Unforseen complications arose, which included delivering a wedding cake very late and not looking good. It was delicious, but complications due to ingredient substitutions they client requested, left the icing literally sliding off the cake.

Offering the client rejection and full refund, the client said, "50% is better than nothing, if it's edible, bring it" and I did. I spoke with the caterer who said they loved and ate every inch of the cake, guests said it was the best cake they'd ever eaten, no one was upset, and all was fine. I issued them a 50% refund and they wrote a negative, angry, tomb on 18 different review sites. I clearly screwed up, but thought I had taken responsibility to their satisfaction. I should have simply refused to deliver it and given them a full refund - but I suspect the result would have been the same. I felt like I got kicked when I was down.

Another one was short - they simply didn't like my product. It wasn't what they were expecting, so she wrote a bad review. Why on earth she didn't simply call and tell me they didn't like it is beyond me - especially since they are in the same industry! I contacted her, apologized that I hadn't been more clear about what type of cake I understood she wanted, and mailed her a full refund. Yet, it stands today, 2-3 years later - with no append about my apology and full refund.

Aside from my two bad reviews, I think a lot of people are simply passive aggressive and like to smear a business and exaggerate a bad experience. I think the site should allow the business to respond, and have things hashed out in private - like a mitigation. If parties can not resolve their differences and the reviewer is simply being a jack ass, the review should not go up - at least not as written. There could be a review that says something like, "A customer had a bad experience, the business responded, but they could not agree". But if the customer is right and the business owner is the jack ass - the review can go up as written - and should.

Paying to have negative reviews quashed is bad for everyone. It's cheating. But the review sites do need to be more responsible and provide a back door of some kind when responsible businesses take care of misunderstandings and mistakes. We shouldn't have to continue paying for a mistake for all of eternity.

Judy Tallant
Tallant House - Fine Sweets & Other Eats

Hi Margie,

I've been burned too many times by "review" sites. It appears to me that the only people who write on review sites are those with a motivation. Great experience, horrible experience, local competitor, or local resident paid to write a review. We just launched a site to help wine lovers find wineries, wine bars, hotels, etc. and we were forced to make a choice: did we want reviews or not? We elected to build our site without reviews. Why? We we all determined that our experience with reviews is that they were no better at determining the quality of the business than blind luck. In fact, it made us wonder how many places we never discovered because of bad reviews. As we continue to build our site, I sincerely hope that people enjoy the clean, uncluttered way they can search listings in our system. Our basic listings offer nothing more than a name, address, and phone number. The featured listings offer photos, a URL, description, etc. When you get a chance you should check out the site at http://www.winetrippingtv.com/

Dan Ganshirt

Great article, Margie, thank you!

I think there are a couple often-overlooked factors that play in here:

In society, there are a certain percentage of happy, positive, creative people, and a certain percentage of unhappy "Negative Nancy's" - folks that are generally negative, not so ethical, demeaning, irresponsible, etc. If you're not one of these negative types, you can probably spot them in nearly any group you participate in: it's the person that complains, causes drama and problems, doesn't pull their fair share, etc. It's probably about 20% of the population. It's unfortunate but true that 20% of the population causes most of the problems of society. And they're not unique to any specific race, social or economic strata, religion, etc. - they can pull up in a Rolls Royce and be sporting Tiffany jewelry. They don't have the fortitude to create, but they do sometimes work their way into positions of power - but only through parasitic behavior on folks that DO create.

The Yelp system is neat and valuable, but as it stands today, does not take this phenomenon into account. And the phenomenon is very real - we all see it every day. How I see it playing out in Yelp is that many very positive patrons of any establishment do not write into Yelp to express their appreciation for a great experience - they either do nothing, or share their appreciation directly to the manager.

The anti-social types use Yelp in a destructive way. If you watch a person like this closely, you'll see that they make it their business to rain on others' parades more often than not. Some of them do so fairly covertly.

Even though it's only a minority percentage of the population that acts this way, you can look through reviews on any excellent establishment and find more negative reviews than 20%.

It takes a certain amount of character and responsibility to start and operate a retail business. Anyone who has started and operated a business knows what I mean. It takes practically none to be a Yelp reviewer.

Consider Yelp's value proposition to be this: "Come on in, pay a compliment or throw a rock, whatever you please."

The result is that the anti-social come in and throw rocks. That's just the way they behave most everywhere they go.

I don't think it's the public's expectation of a business owner that he/she make every aspect of a business super-perfect in every way, and be ultra-careful to prevent ever upsetting the easily upset. This is their livelihood, it's how they pay their bills. Expectation is that they give a fair and honest value in exchange for money paid, and if a mistake is made, they correct it.

Culture flourishes when we as fellow members of the group support and uphold our society's constructive businesses. It's the exchange that keeps the world going 'round. This means we need to protect them from the Negative Nancy's that throw rocks.

The owners/employees of Yelp make their livelihood from their business as well, and they provide a valuable service for the group as well.

If you're a cupcake shop owner, it's your responsibility to make sure the cupcakes are good - no bad stuff. If you're Yelp, your product IS a communication line and the valuable information created by it - you're responsible for making sure the information is constructive, not destructive. If you allow the public to create your product, you better put systems into place to prevent bad cupcakes. Bad cupcakes hurt honest people.

Don't be too rosy in your 'freedom-of-information' 'nothing-should-be-censored' 'everyone-has-a-right-to-their-opinion' model. If you want your culture to last, bestow rights on honest, productive, creative people - not on the destructive. Check your history - it's not the first time that bad people have used powerful communication lines to destroy. These little retail shops and the diversity they provide are a large piece of our culture, and they're easily hurt or stopped by bad information made public.

Yelp needs to remove the current punishment capability, and institute a system that enables business owners to be alerted to the deficiency first, have the opportunity to correct it, and avoid a punishment review.

Jim

Margie

Just a quickish note on Yelp question you pose-

When I opened Tamal a few years back, I was all alone in my part of SOMA until a well known restaurateur moved into a once beloved space down about a half block away. They were doomed from the start, having saddled themselves with all kinds of debt that the size and nature of their space could ill afford- pastry chef, fancy international jet set consulting chef alone made more money than the space could generate given its size and concept…They floundered out of the gate, got a bad review from Bauer and decided to take it out on us… the bad yelp reviews started…it was blatant and obvious and there was little we could do… this is the bad side of Yelp… petty arguments, competition, ex wives or husbands, jilted lovers all can go into the mix of reviews… there does need to be a way to address this type of issue. A review system of the reviews is in order. But in no way do I think that a pay for play type situation is right..once that occurs the results are tainted and the review site is worthless as anything more than a portal to get directions and hours of operation ….

But saying that I love Yelp! , I use it and appreciate all it did for me as a chef and owner. As a customer I use it as well… I have learned how to read between the good the bad and the ugly, and to be honest it is almost always close to right. Owners and chefs are funny- and seem to respond to negatives with vitriol and anger at the reviewer and not where it belongs… on the kitchen, the concept or the staff. Arguments, like it was a bad night- don’t cut it with me. And if you read reviews you see truth in the trends…

I sit with other chefs and owners, I think the bitch sessions amongst ourselves is vastly different then even you really hear, given your position and the need to spin for you… and to a man woman and child they almost all look at negatives as the fault of the amateur writer and not of their own failings. I find that fascinating… we would see a bad review about staff or food and address it on the spot… not so for many places that are getting hit by reviews not to their liking… I can think of 3 places in Sonoma county right now that are not happy about the yelps they get and react with angry letters to the writers, and campaigns’ on face book etc… and yes they would do anything to have those things removed but with all that energy expended I don’t think they go to that same staff meeting and bring up how it could be better…in fact I know they don’t, they have laid all of the negatives on Yelp and the amateur reviewer.

I am against Pay for Play, as I would call it… very much for an ability to challenge obvious flames and such… but very much for the power to the people to discuss amongst themselves the very act of eating, this is the greatest democracy that can be… I get more out of yelp then 20 years of Bauer…

That’s the basics from me

Moaya Scheiman